Writing can be a vulnerable profession. We sit alone ordering our thoughts and working to make sense of an increasingly insane world. When we feel done enough, we hit publish, allowing the world to peek into our souls. It’s humbling. It’s terrifying. And it’s not for the faint of heart.
In the midst of our solitary writing, we make furtive forays out of our caves into the real world. To put flesh on the words. To make sure we have integrity. (And to gather fodder for future ideas.) Yesterday, I left the security of my little office to take part in an interview with a west coast radio personality who shall go unnamed. His assistant communicated to me that he appreciated my recent blog (Sports Illustrated and the Cultivation of Misguided Desire) and wanted to interview me on how we raised our sons to honor women. I asked for a through line and for the specific questions he would ask.
After five minutes of politely inquiring about the hows and whys, it took a strange twist.
Radio host: I’ve noticed that the primary cause of boys hating women starts in the home. Most boys hate their mothers because their mothers have so dominated and controlled them. She imposes her will on them, on their innocence and the father is not able to stop the mother from doing this because he’s been destroyed by his own mother.
Hmmm. Those of you who know how I lead small groups might anticipate that my comeback was, “Would you like to talk about your relationship with your mother Mr. Radio host?” but since it was his show, I simply disagreed with his conclusion that the root of all misogyny could be traced back to bad mothering. (How convenient that would be for the men.)
After a short commercial break during which I frantically typed an SOS to my writing community asking for prayer, he came back with an even more surprising question.
Radio host: Why did your husband let you do this?
I paused, ever aware that pausing on live radio is a no no. The question seemed so ridiculous that I asked him to repeat it. When I understood what he was going after, I responded that my husband and I were partners in raising our sons and because he is from a Mediterranean background, he has witnessed first hand the devastating impact of misogyny. After all, it was the Greeks who coined the word, apparently needing a pithy way to describe their practice of putting unwanted baby girls out on their front steps to die.
His next comment nearly took my breath away. This is verbatim:
Radio host: Well, I hear that you mean well but I guarantee you that unless your boys change, they’re gonna be wimpy men. They’re gonna go thru hell because women hate weak men. Because these boys have not been taught how to deal with women properly they’re gonna be in bad relationships. They’re gonna suffer.
I wondered if I should I counter his insanity with, “So you’re saying that Jesus was a wimp? Because He seemed to love and honor women.” Or, should I sweetly say, “Oh, sorry. I feel a compelling need to floss my teeth. Thanks for having me. Bye. Bye.” Perhaps in retrospect, that would have been the choice of wisdom. Instead, I contended. For my sons. For women everywhere who have been the victims of misogyny.
With my voice shaking in anger, I responded:
Me: Wait a minute. You’re saying that because we’ve taught our sons to value and respect women that they are going to be wimpy? I don’t understand that logic.
Radio host: There’s no such thing as teaching them to value women. Women are going to see your sons as weak, I guarantee.
Me, in a much louder voice and actually talking over him: No! I am sorry. That feels like a curse and I am not going to accept that. Women are not going to see my sons as weak. My husband is a strong man and he…
Radio host, interrupting me: No, not if he allowed this to happen. He’s not strong.
Me: I completely disagree with you.
It descended (fast and furious) from this point. Perhaps the worst moment was when he accused me of upsetting God’s created order simply because we had taught our sons that women and men are equal. I guess I missed that Bible study.
I’ve spoken on misogyny before. Every time, it’s a lightning rod for folks who are misogynists. In this situation, in case it’s not blatantly obvious, the radio host himself was giving a rather convincing portrayal of one. I don’t know this man, but here’s my guess. He has a gaping mother wound which he has not dealt with and harbors some deep unforgiveness toward his mother or other maternal figures. This wound has festered and the infection has a name: misogyny–the hatred of women.
Misogyny is rampant in the world today. Pornography? Yup. (And yes, that includes Sports Illustrated swimsuit issue.) Prostitution and sex trade? Misogyny. The male coach who makes an derogatory comment about the opposing team’s female coach? Check. Religious institutions which use 1 Corinthians 11 as proof that men are to dominate and rule over women (that came up later in the interview)? Yes. That’s misogyny too.
Misogyny is not just some bizarre practice which existed in ancient cultures. Like the Balrog Durin Bane in Lord of the Rings, it is a powerful spiritual force which seeks to dishonor and destroy women–and the feminine component of God. (If men and women are created in God’s image, there has to be a feminine component to God.)
The Garden of Eden, pre-fall, offers us a snapshot of God’s intentions. Man and woman lived without covering and without fear. There was no shame and no need to dominate because they understood equality. They both reflected the truth and beauty of who God created them to be. By teaching our sons to value women, we were not creating wimps; we were helping them follow the barely visible trail back to the Garden. My hope and prayer is that they will continue along this path, becoming increasingly strong, godly men who value and uphold women all the days of their lives.
PS: I hesitated writing this post. I certainly don’t want to foment hatred or cause deeper divisions. It felt worth the risk because so many have become blind to the reality that misogyny exists. Next time you interact with our sons, see if you don’t agree with the choices we’ve made. And pray for Mr. Radio man and his many followers. He’s surely missing out on the blessing that women bring. (If you are a female writer or speaker, send me an email so I can share his name with you. I would not want any of you to go through the wringer with this man.)
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It can be difficult under “denouncement” from someone, especially in a public forum, to clearly see when someone is projecting their own struggle in an abusive way. In the future listen to your gut: “Would you like to talk about your relationship with your mother Mr. Radio host?” would have been just fine! It wasn’t just “his show”. You were a partner to it, he couldn’t have had much of a show without you, you had been invited to participate and had ownership in it. Perhaps a change in wording next time? “If someone used this tone and verbiage in my office, I would ask them if they would like to talk about their relationship with their mother.” If he had kept it up, you might have asked the same question six different ways to get your point across. Sounds like you stayed “standing” in your armor!
Mrs. Greco: I heard the interview and would like to share it with your readers. If you have the guts you’ll let them listen and make up their own minds instead of hiding behind your keyboard and spreading misinformation. Here’s the link to the interview in its entirety:
Pastor Dorothy Greco on The Jesse Peterson Radio Show:
A quick read of my work it would be clear to anyone that I don’t hide. I did not post the interview because it was painful and very long. Any quotes that I put in the post were verbatim. Had Mr. Radio man told me up front that he disagreed and wanted to content for his perspective, it would have been a very different interview. I was led to believe that he agreed with me and wanted to share my thoughts with his listeners. Though he started in this trajectory, he quickly went elsewhere, as he has done with other female writers in the recent past. Furthermore, to suggest that the root of misogyny is due to bad mothering, is, well, misogynistic.
Dorothy, Forgive me for taking so long to read your blog. (Life is so full of words!) I’m grateful for your courage here. I’d call this righteous anger.
It’s difficult to challenge belligerent ignorance and glad you did, although I would doubt someone so far in to hating woman can even hear you.
You are a brave and intelligent soul. Don’t let this guy get to you.
We’ve got your back!
I have two sons. I hope they grow up to be as sound and strong as yours.
Dorothy, perhaps my brother-in-law’s response to telemarketers would be a propos for these situations once the inappropriate questioning emerges:
“I’m sorry … I think there was a mistake … were you trying to reach Dorothy *Littell* Greco? … So sorry for the confusion … Just a minute please …” And then leave him for about 3 or 4 minutes. Return to the phone.
“Hello? Hello? Am I speaking to Dorothy Littell Greco?” Allow him to respond. “Oh, so sorry, let me find her ….” And then leave him for another 3 or 4 minutes.
I suppose it would give him fodder for determining that you are the kind of “dominant” woman that must raise “wimpy” boys. But at least you’d stay in control of the situation and have a laugh at his expense!
As you can see by these comments, Dorothy, we are with you. This subject is not dead as you say. In fact we need more people like you who are willing to stand up for truth and be heard. That must have felt awful in the moment, but I applaud you for not backing down! Bless you, friend.
I once had a pastor who claimed God was physically engendered as a male. No amount of reasoning — God is a spirit and the Bible emphasizes both God’s masculine and feminine qualities (nursing being one of them) — would convince him otherwise. No surprise that this man had not seen his mother in decades, is no longer married, was wrongfully controlling of young women in the church, and is no longer a pastor. But the wounds from this type of teaching remain. May your words cause others to examine their own misguided notions and VALUE their mothers more — not less.
Meadow, I know you have seen this first hand too. Somehow it’s always uglier when it happens in the church or with other believers.
Thank you Dorothy for both your vulnerability and standing up to speak the truth in love. Doing an interview is always a gamble.
John 3:5-7 clearly displays the feminine aspect of the character of God: “Jesus answered, “Very truly I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless they are born of water and the Spirit. Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit. 7 You should not be surprised at my saying, ‘You must be born again.’”
Awesome reference, Anthony! I had never thought of it that way!
Anthony, I so appreciate your thoughtfulness and the man that you have become. no wimpiness here! I wonder what Mr. Radio Man would think if he sat down and had a convo with you?
There is a lot of ignorance on this subject in general, and I could have claimed myself one of the ignorant over a decade ago. It is so worthy to have these conversations, for the sake of the greater good and for that, I’m thankful for your bravery and willingness. I could only imagine what that experience felt like for you, in the actual moments of the unfolding conversation. In reading the dialogue text that you’ve provided, verses actually hearing the conversation, it doesn’t seem to me like you “blew up”. I read it differently. I see strength and courage. I notice that you were able to stand up, not to be pushed down, not just for yourself, but for your family. In all of that you seemed to maintain dignity. Kudos to you on that! Foolishness normally does a good job of revealing itself, and so we certainly see some of that from the interviewer. I will agree to asking God to bless that man and his family.
In a word, it was awful. I was literally shaking in the middle of it and in tears when done. I had to take the dog for a long walk and then chop ice off the d’way for another 15 minutes before I felt calm.
Good for you!!! His questions and responses make me sick to my stomach. Thanks for speaking the truth!
You are welcome Erin.
Non-apology not only accepted, but applauded !-)
Dorothy, the world would be lucky to have more men like the sons you are raising — men whose strength is shown in their choice to do the hard work of loving and respecting others rather than the easy (wimpy) choice of trampling over them.
Wow Dorothy this is hard to believe you had this conversation on Public Radio.Your Son’s are fine young men that show great respect.I appreciated how you responded and took a stand for what you believe and value.Will be Praying for this host and his followers.
Tammy, thanks for saying that, esp. having just spent a few days with one of the boys. And do pray for Mr. Radio man. I believe he needs to Lord to break into his heart.
Thanks for another insightful post!
I’m glad you wrote this post, Dorothy. I looked that radio host up yesterday when you first mentioned his idiocy (my word, not yours), and it confirmed that the man is an idiot. He has no concept of how relationships really work in the kingdom of God, nor how they work in the world either. He’s really twisted in his logic, and I fear for those who listen to him regularly.
Am I being harsh? Perhaps. Am I being too harsh? Not at all. His words are heresy and he should be called out for it. I’m refraining from giving his name here, since you chose to keep him anonymous. But he’s a menace to society in general and to the family of God in particular.
One wonders is this “radio host” similar to other such personalities that have been married and divorced more than once yet manage to make themselves out as purveyors of wisdom?
Unfortunately too much media today thrives on conflict, it would seem that’s the only way weak intellect can create ratings. It is also why I don’t listen to said same.
Thanks for being brave enough to face ’em down sis!
Thanks sis.
Tim, I appreciate your advocacy, not only for me, but for the many women writers I know you support. We are grateful.